Today a guest post written by long-time reader David. In this post he points out why he thinks conversation group are a bad idea for any learner. At the end I’ve added my view and possible solution for everyone that struggles with the same problem.
The idea, getting a group of Spanish learners (or any language for that matter) together to practice, sounds great. After all, one of the major complaints of language learners is the lack of opportunity to practice. Conversation groups, though, may damage what you have already learned. Allow me to explain a little further.
First, I have attended various conversation groups. The fun ones have food, and sometimes are conducted in restaurants or coffee shops. The boring groups, well, at a library which itself screams silence! (Hint -don’t schedule a conversation group in a location where people normally are quiet -geez!) OK, back to why conversation groups are not all that great. It is simple. Reinforcement of your mistakes combined with learning the mistakes of others, who are in all likelihood making their own mistakes. I won’t even get into pronunciation problems, etc.
OK, so here are my observations. One or two people dominate the conversations and it isn’t because they know Spanish that well. It is just their personality. Someone will always pull out their dictionary to check each and every word, and then question your use of whatever you said so that you look good, for having used your vocabulary correctly, or insure you, and the others around you, know that you, yes you, have used a word incorrectly. Oh, and I can’t forget the grammar wizards. They exist, as far as I know, in every language. The grammar wizards feel, or possibly are required by some law -who knows, to point out every grammar mistake, no matter how trivial. By the end of whatever conversation all you can think about is putting your hands around the grammar wizard’s neck and squeezing until their grammar ridden head pops off their shoulders.
If you are lucky (I have been on several occasions) there will be at least one native Spanish speaker at the group meeting. Don’t count on this though. Normally there are no native Spanish speakers so what you have is a group of language learners attempting to speak in Spanish, with everyone at various fluency levels so you are forced to either lower your level so all can understand you, or speak at your level so only a few understand you. Either way, someone is left out which isn’t cool. I have yet to attend one of these conversation groups that did not after about 30 minutes of painful Spanish conversation revert to English.
So, if the conversation groups don’t work, what does? Good question. I started my Spanish journey in earnest in 1999 taking a few night classes and decided what the heck, go for it, and in 2005 graduated with a BA in Modern Languages, Spanish. Each year I have spent no less than six weeks in a Spanish speaking country -Mexico, Costa Rica, Guatemala. Hoping for Spain next year just because I want to say I was there, and of course eat the food, visit with the Spaniards, and, well, have some fun. The only times I have felt at ease with Spanish has been while in another country. I, on occasion, attend one of these conversation groups hoping I will get that same feeling. It hasn’t happened yet which on the bright side gives me a good excuse to travel each year. I can’t be the only one that wants to just use Spanish regardless of whether I am in the U.S. (my home country), but finds it difficult because I have one of those cute (personal opinion here) faces that screams, hey, speak to me only in English. Even my friends who are native Spanish speakers speak more in English than in Spanish. Urrrrrr!
Ramses’ advice:I completely agree with David. In the past they tried to plug some conversations group at the college I study. Simply said; I don’t like them. As David points out you’re simply kidding yourself by talking Spanish with non-natives. Now, this doesn’t matter if they’re good, but if you follow the tips from Spanish-Only.com you probaby have a waaaay higher level than most participants. My advice? Connect with natives.
I’m lucky enough to have some native classmates whose Dutch isn’t good at all. Although this sucks for them, it’s perfect for me. During breaks or after school activities we only speak Spanish (not because I force them, but because they switch to Spanish as soon as most non-native classmates are gone). Still, the only reason they prefer to speak Spanish with me is because my Spanish is good; in the beginning (when I still sucked at Spanish) they were switching to Dutch all the time because they thought I couldn’t keep up with them (which was indeed a problem, but not anymore).
If you’re not as lucky as me, you can still find natives. Many big cities around the world have Spanish-speaking communities and thus have places where these hispanohablentes meet. In the city I study in the Netherlands (Utrecht) there are a few bars and restaurants owned by Spaniards and where there are always native Spanish speakers.
If still isn’t an option either you can still go for a language exchange. Whatever people say; they can work! I’ve actually met some really nice people through Mixxer and some other big sites, and thanks to them I got some serious speaking practice.
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{ 2 comments… read them below or add one }
I agree with most of what you are saying. Students need to set priorities when learning. It may seem impolite to not speak with someone who is not a advanced level speaker but it is not. You can be polite and exchange pleasantries but if there is not someone there who is at an advanced level with a good accent, pronunciation and strong fluency then you shouldn’t be learning from them.
If you are practicing with a low level student you could be learning their mistakes. If there are natives there make it a priority to speak to them or to set a time when you can get together with them outside of the conversation group to hang out.
@Spanish Tutor – Agree! Priorities and goals are necessary. I have found too that it is easier to break down the ultimate goal (in my case, to speak so close to that of a native Spanish speaker that only the very well attuned would know it is not my first language) into smaller, more manageable goals.
Also agree with you, and of course Ramses, that speaking with native speakers is the best way to learn. I wonder if they, the native Spanish speakers, know just how much we language learners value them? Anyway, on a positive side of conversation groups it does help those of us who, in the beginning, had trouble just initiating a conversation in Spanish. Now, if I could just go out and use Spanish in the “real world” without hesitation I would be, as they say, on cloud nine.
David