As of two weeks ago I changed my environment. All music, movies, reading material, websites (except yours, AJAAT and Keiths; I can’t help it, man!) in Portuguese. I listen to something (generally ripped movie audio) in Portuguese at all times. I feel weird when I don’t hear the language! Like something’s wrong. Before starting this method, I was afraid that I would have wasted 6 months in Brazil with little to show for it, but just 2 weeks has improved my understanding of the spoken langauge greatly. In an attempt to get the most of the language before leaving (to Mexico, and back to Spanish, Orale! I’m from Texas ) I’ve been hitting the SRS at a rate of 50 entries/day, and writing out every single sentence for extra practice.

I wish I could apply this method to this language for more than the next two months, but I am very much looking forward to putting in all of your ideas back into my grammar-broken (hopefully not permanently) Spanish. Now, back to “work” with me.

Something I noticed this week: a classmate of mine went to a language school for the past 8 weeks to ‘perfect’ her Spanish. At the end she received a certificate stating she reached the C2 level.

But now we had some oral exams this week as well. She had do to do some things again, and her speaking SUCKED. There were pauses, bad grammar, bad accent, etc. I passed with an A+ without preparation and just talked with a good accent, good grammar, without thinking about stupid rules, etc.

Not that I’m so good at everything, but it proves that a grammar-centered language school gives you nothing but bad results and a fake diploma.

You are right, only a grammar nazi would actually get anywhere studying grammar, everyone else just gives up. Being forced to start speaking a language before you are ready will hurt if you are not “good” at languages to start with. I consider myself very good (lets say I learn fast), but I can’t stand my bad habits.

Fluent in a weekend? Bull. It’s easy to get fluent at conversational spanish, but how could anyone mistake that for lanuguage fluency? Just because you can understand someone when they ask if you speak their language doesn’t mean you can wield that language like a native.

Your article was absolutely true, Ramses, but the haterz shall continue playing around with their grammar books. Why? Because they NEED their English. They are too insecure to actually let go of their native language, despite their so-called fluency in another language. They lack the discipline (remembering what you want!) to drop everything english and actually make another language their sole mode of communication.

Ignore the grammar nazis, dude, and keep rockin’! (not that you need me to tell you )

David
(Capitalization done on certain words for emphasis only because unable to get italics to work. Sorry about that.)

Language instruction in high schools is heavily centered around grammar. Who became fluent from that? No one. Who’s being ridiculous here?

It’s not that a person should always have “what part of speech is that?” on their mind. In fact, that would be counterproductive. Ever try to think too hard about walking, while you’re walking, and then find yourself stumbling? I think it’s more about the pattern recognition. That, combined with a good ear and ability to parse (to recognize word roots) can help you acquire faster.

The thing I don’t understand is the fighting between the various camps of learning methods. I’m basing this on nothing but my own gut feeling (ie. I’m not a linguist), but I suspect that different methods are helpful to some and less to others, and vice versa. For me, I probably put more effort into learning French than into learning Spanish, and it was a hopeless exercise. All of the silent consonants tripped me up. So obviously, to me, hearing is important, and being able to match what I hear to how it’s spelled is extremely important to acquisition.

I also think that the other methods and tools, reading, radio, tv., etc., are in themselves no better than grammar and they certainly are not sufficient to achieving fluency. Don’t get me wrong, they are excellent for learning a language. I think a student of language would be wise to do all of the above. But for actual acquisition, there is no substitute for jumping into the deep-end of the pool of immersion, and it does require putting your ego aside. It’s just that when you do immerse yourself, you will be falling back on grammar, things you heard/saw on tv, read in books, etc., without even realizing it.

When I studied in Spain, I didn’t even speak much with fellow classmates. They frustrated me because they spoke English every chance they got. So, I ignored them and I know many thought I was strange or a snob, or both. I didn’t care. And if I went to a cafe and a server insisted on speaking English, I would go elsewhere next time, though I made sure to show my appreciation to the server for making such a kind effort for me.

Well, anyway, hate to see people fight who care passionately about the same thing, and who when you think about it, are mostly on the same page.

I certainly agree that you should practice, but not after some dull textbook exercises. They don’t help, I’ve seen too many college students taking language classes and sucking completely. Only the ones who take massive input at home succeed. Also, a breakthrough does happen with a method like the TV method. That you didn’t do it doesn’t mean it’s not effective. Furthermore, studying grammar may let you feel like you’re making a breakthrough, but as soon as you see there are hundreds (if not thousands) of exceptions, you’re most likely to quit because of demotivation. What’s better? You probably know the answer, although I’m sure you won’t express it here (which is a pity),