People seem to argue that the only way to learn a language is to either go to the country where they speak it itself, or by attending a class. Here I’ll discuss some reasons why you shouldn’t even want to go to class (and then it doesn’t matter if it’s for learning Spanish or Swahili, it’s all the same).
- It’s boring. Really, most of the time class is just really boring. And I can’t blame them; how on earth can you please a large group of people? They all have different interests! They all have their own hobbies. It’s simply impossible to design a program that entertains them all, so often they don’t even try to entertain anyone.
- It’s all the same. Even if you don’t find the class boring, it’s still all the same. A teacher often discusses things that he/she likes, and probably won’t choose things the students need. Furthermore, if the teacher does decide to cover a wide range of subjects, there won’t be spend much time on your favorite one because every subject needs to get an equal share of time.
- You hear bad Spanish. Most people in Spanish class are learners (except for the teacher), so they all have major (or if you’re lucky, minor) glitches in their Spanish. We’re all human and it’s not out fault for not being perfect, but it IS a bad thing to hear bad pronounced, full of grammatical mistakes, Spanish day in day out. In the long run it’ll destroy your own Spanish or build up the Spanish you know around false rules and pronunciation (as a – native – professor once told me: “Spending years teaching beginner’s Spanish, my own Spanish began to suffer“. Now THAT’s shocking!).
- It’s just a few hours per week. Unless you’re in an immersion program (or something that looks like one, although you probably don’t want that after reading number 2), Spanish class is just a few hours a week. Even if you attend a daily class, it’s not real immersion. Therefore, most of what you learn, will be forgotten somewhere along the way. The absolute key in language learning is: Getting LOTS of correct input, each and every day.
- They teach grammar. I’ve written countless times about learning grammar (not only on this blog, but on many others as well) so I won’t go into it now. But the fact that 9 out of 10 language schools or programs insist on teaching and learning grammar in a formal way is a very bad thing and will also leave you with bad Spanish.
- It’s slow. Even if you’re doing some full-time class, it’s still likely the class progresses as fast as the slower students are progressing. If you’re unlucky you’ll be one of the faster students and thus become 1) bored and 2) forget most things because your attention is not with the lesson. Both are things that will kill your progress.
- You’ll only learn “scholar language”. Most language classes are aiming to teach the students language of many aspects of life. But often it’s still basic stuff only tourists need. Next to that: most language taught in schools is artificial or at least old fashioned. Take a beginner’s textbook for learning English and you’ll likely see the greeting “how do you do?“. We’re not living in the 19th century, people of today use more slang than ever, and I really mean A LOT. Most language classes will never cover things like slang, leaving the students incompetent when they find themselves in a real situation with real natives.
- It creates false expectations. The grand majority of people taking a class, think that taking a class and doing your best wilbring you success and fluency for sure. But that, of course, is total BS; although there are certainly some teaching methods out there that are effective and will bringmost students to a high level, most classes aren’t designed that way and are only to keep student either 1) busy or 2) keep them busy and earn a living from them. I’ve seen countless expats living in the country, taking class after class, and still sucking at Spanish. Don’t fall in that trap!
Here, this are some reasons you shouldn’t take a class and pay top dollar for it. What are YOUR reasons for not taking a class but instead studying on your own? The best reasons will be bundled in a follow-up post.
If you enjoyed this post, make sure you subscribe to my RSS feed!Related Posts:
Why people suck in class
Reasons why NOT stop studying Spanish
I’m a High School Student And Suck At Spanish
How To Learn Spanish for Lazy People (And 5 Reasons Lazy People Are Better Learners)
Going to a language school? Part I: the pros
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{ 19 comments… read them below or add one }
Another reason to not take a class: it’s expensive. For what you pay for most classes, you could do better buying quality materials for self-study and probably have money left over. For a Berlitz-type language school, you could instead travel to a country to where the target language is spoken 24/7.
All those reasons could apply to any lessons/class in any subject! Mind you I say that and I am a French teacher lol But I do agree that the best way to learn a language is to stay in the country and mix with local people. Note that I do try to make my lessons fun and not too boring
I also agree that immersion is the ideal. It’s not always practical, though.
When I was in Russia years ago, we had a wonderful translator who claimed he had learned English by listening to rock music! His English was pretty good, too. On the other hand, in preparation for my trip, I had spent several months with a set of cassettes and a corresponding textbook. Even though I was highly motivated to learn the language, (we were adopting two boys), the accountability factor was missing, and I think a class would have served me better.
@santu: Great reason, will add it to the follow-up post.
@Alice: true, but languages are different. I personally don’t think you can learn math by just watching people solving mathematical problems without receiving an explanation. This is not the case with languages. By the way: I’m a teacher myself.
@sraj: I think the class would’ve done the same as the textbooks did for you. I don’t know how much you’ve read of this blog, but I’m not a fan of textbooks either. Immersion really is nice, but the nagative thing about it is that it takes quite some time to see results.
I have to agree language classes suck! I took Spanish for 3 years in high school and the only phrase I got go at was “no sé” which I said to just about every answer of my oral exams since I had no idea what the teacher was saying or how to respond to her! I couldn’t read anything beyond elementary Spanish and anything that wasn’t English-like in structure would cause me to run in the opposite direction.
The nail in the coffin for me was when a friend of mine said that he couldn’t understand most of the things said during a movie, Buscando a Nemo, we were watching because he had learned “proper Spanish” (this is after two years of college level Spanish classes.) Who speaks proper anything on a day-to-day basis?!
Anyway, Spanish classes taught me what I need to focus on now like por vs para, the object pronouns, etc. I got a foundation from it but nothing else.
Nice post Ramses!
Some reasons you should take a (Spanish) class:
- MOST of the people, “without outside” disziplin, are not able to learn anything, it’s my case.
- It’s boring. t’s all the same.Well, not always. The point is to find the teacher that doesn’t make it boring! I know students driving extre miles to join my class, as I did for example to leanr german.
And as a teacher I can tell you, that’s one of the most interesting thing of the job; not to try to make it funny, but at least, neither boring.
But you are right in one point: A teacher often discusses things that he/she likes.
- You hear bad Spanish. I think this is good as long as ONE MORE PART of the learning process, for beginers, I found it good they could understand simple/easy sentences other students say; it help’s to “repeat” new input, as long as classmates will try to use the same and new sentences others try to lern/use in the same class.
- They teach grammar. Well, Ramses, my experience in Spain and Germany, in Primary School, University and Private Schools says that THIS REALLY BELONGS TO THE PAST.
You may have other experience, but this is what I saw as a teacher and student. Even most of the books to learn Spanisch as Caminos, Gente, etc… use the “communicativ way”.
Do you really have this experience that they teach grammar?
- It’s just a few hours per week. Well for some ones is PERFECT! For others they need more intensiv courses with more hours, so they find another good perfect course.
-It’s slow. That’s right, it uses to be slow or fast, as the point of the hours, you should find what fits better to you.
-It creates false expectations. I don’t think so. Learn Spanish is like to lose weight. There are many ways and methods, but at the end, it depends on YOURSELF if you really “WORK” for it or not.
I always say to my students, to join a Spanish class is not, something funny, is not like to watch a movie on theaters. You have to work, weekly if not every day, to get results. Joing classes once, twice a week it’s good. But does is just a part of the work, Writing letter, texts, emails, practice what you have learn are even more important.
People beleive, “what I do at class, I can do at home alone, so I don’t need to do pay for this courses”. Well, unfortunately, sometimes we really need “extra push” to get things we want. And a fitness Studio do it, and a Spanish course too.
And it doesn’t need to be expensive: in Germany for less than 120 Euro you can join a Spanish course for 2 or 3 months, 3 hours a week. In Spain a little bit more expensive…
Sorry, if it wasn’t the real point we “should” comment.
Joel
Hey there,
I won’t write a whole lot because these other comments have provided similar feedback. I think that, practically speaking, a mix is what is best for learning a language. All of your reasons for not taking a class are pretty good ones. I have been in Spanish classes for 9 years now and I wouldn’t dare call myself fluent… and I will get a B.A. in Spanish in TWO WEEKS! haha
So yes, if you only attend language classes, you won’t become bilingual. That’s for sure. On the other hand, I want to mention that I believe you will have much more success immersing yourself in a foreign country if you have had a few classes that give you some sort of foundation. A teacher can be a lot of help in telling you where to start, or giving you a “skeleton” of the language. Experiences in another country might even be the most important part, but I think that the most effective way to learn is the combination of both.
My university (Grand Valley State University) is one of the top 10 colleges in the USA for student participation in study abroad. It is very common to take classes for a semester at least in another country. This is probably the best idea
and it might not work for during high school, but at least in college I think that’s a good mix. As soon as I graduate I’m flying to Barcelona! There I hope to fill in what I STILL haven’t learned in Spanish.
Great post. The key to improvement is appropriate criticism.
-Rob
@Joel
You have some good points, but most of them aren’t valid if you ask me.
If you don’t have enough discipline to learn Spanish, I guess you either use faulty methods or just don’t want to learn Spanish that bad. Yes, it’s that simple.
Really, hearing bad Spanish is NEVER good, it’s only reinforce your own bad Spanish and let you think the crappy Spanish you and your classmates speak is correct (especially because most teachers only correct a fraction of the errors made in class). If you could listen to correct Spanish (immersion) all the time, would you ever WANT to choose to hear incorrect Spanish? Personally speaking, I can’t stand it. I hate college classes Spanish and only work with the natives that use correct Spanish and actually use Spanish when working, rather than Dutch.
I study in the Netherlands (we use Gente in college) and studied in Spain at a language institute. Both courses were/are grammar centered, just like the Gente book is (and pretty much any other book published by Difusión). So it’s an illusion to believe that schools to teach grammar, because that’s simply the way it is.
Few hours a week good? You’ll never ever learn Spanish with that. No really, not even someone with a so-called photografic memory.
@Rob
.
Good to see you here, instead of only on Twitter
9 years of Spanish and still not fluent? WOW! I’m not bashing you, but it only shows how ineffective language instruction really is. And about the immersion thing: living is a Spanish speaking country isn’t immersion (only if you also do everything at home in Spanish as well – which you can do in ANY country – it’s no real immersion), nor will it guarantee that you’ll become fluent at the language (you have to rush speaking (which is bad, believe me, just look at a random immigrant in your town), it’s no immersion 24/7, etc.).
Well maybe I will clarify that I am very good at Spanish, and I can have conversations with native speakers etc, but my standards are very high, I would only call myself fluent if I felt like I was as comfortable with Spanish as a native speaker. I think that will take a long time to perfect.
Learning languages is a fantastic way to stretch your perception (even programming languages!). I’ve heard good things about Rosetta stone.
@Mark
Err, what has this to do with classes? Seems like a “great post!” comment to me, just for getting your link out…
Dear Ramses,
I do NOT say, just 4 hours a week would be enough to learn spanish. I just say, it’s the “push” most people need to keep on track, to continue learning, following some guides, teacher-book gives. Schools schould’t teach much grammar, just the necessary to communicate, at least until very high level to improve already fluent knowledge.
I don’t say people should listen bad spanish all the time, just in class and sometimes.
I think as I told in the other post, to listen bad spanish, is just another “tool” to improve the listening skill, as long as people are able to identify some structures they are supose to use.
And yes, teacher should correct, but not always, specially at beginners. Other point is, to have a bad teacher. This is possible, and unfortunately, “easy” to find…
For sure inmersion is a VERY GOOD oportunity to improve.
I basically agree Rob, “the most effective way to learn is the combination of both”.
You really think Gente is based on grammar teaching? You provably are kidding me.
As far as I know, Gente is one of the books with LESS grammar, as long as it’s concentrate on communicative skills. Moreover is the book to learn Spanish in hole Germany at Instituto Cervantes (Oficial Spanish School from Spanish Government). exactly because it doesn’t focus on grammar. But provably you mean your courses and the way of the teachers, not exactly the book…
I’m enjoying this discussion because we try to be objective…and as you already show in your blog your high understanding on Spanish as a foreign language, I’m interested on your point of view.
Best Regards,
Joel
Btw. sorry for my english grammar…
Hi Joel,
Great you’re so thorough in your writings. Unfortunately, I won’t post a comment as large as yours, but will try to talk about some of your points
.
The problem with bad Spanish in class is that you often don’t know it’s bad Spanish. I know when people are incorrect when I’m in my college Spanish class, but that’s only because I have a high understanding of the language. In the beginning I had quite some bad habits because of this exact same college class. It’s also one of the reasons I stopped going to class on a regular basis but chose to ’study’ on my own instead. Personally, I find it very dangerous if a teacher doesn’t correct pretty much every error. I’m aware of the fact that most teachers don’t want to scare their students off and therefore don’t correct all mistakes, but it is certainly an important thing. Still, the problem isn’t in making mistakes, the real problem is that classes focus on output way too soon. An avarage student should “shut up” at least the first 800 hours of input. This is in line with the ALG philosophy which I supp0rt (more info at http://www.algworld.com).
About the Gente book: I know it’s based on the communicative method, but I’m not kidding you. Just take a random Gente book (I guess there are 7?) and you’ll see that the last 50 pages of each and every book are grammar. Yes, it aren’t always explicit explanations, but it’s still grammar explanation. Overall I don’t like the communicative method, mainly because it focuses on output way too soon. For the rest it’s ok I think (if they would focus on input FIRST). Another interesting read is: http://brooklynmonk.wordpress.com/2009/01/23/picture-stories-alg-concept-in-esl/
Hi Ramses,
Thanks for your great and very useful blog.
Did you start learning Spanish right away with authentic contents or with simple and comprehensible material for beginners as Steve Kaufmann and Krashen recommend?
I started to learn Spanish a few weeks ago and I really hesitate between those 2 input-based options.
Cheers
Hi Jullien,
Well, I actually started out in college, but soon found out that the methods they offered would never get ms fluent. That’s where my search for an alternative started. I think I wrote about starting out and using language learning programs once (I’m writing this from my phone so can’t give you a link) so you might want to search for that first.
I do agree that learning materials could help the raw beginner, but only if it doesn’t teach you grammar in a explicit way and you’ll need to leave it alone anyway (sooner rather than later). In a moment I’ll post something about the TV Method. Check it out and also the links I provide in the post. It’s a beginners paradise (the method).
Wow, teachers really get a bad rap. I think that’s part of the problem….the mentality that exists in some places that native Spanish speakers automatically make for good language teachers. NOT TRUE!!
Also, let’s not underestimate the importance of motivation on the part of the student. There’s a reason why kids pick up a second language quickly when they move to a foreign country, and it’s not just because their young brains are more fertile. It’s also about SURVIVAL!! Kids want to fit in and not be picked on, so they instinctively know that they have to learn the new language, and fast! I bet that adults, placed under similar circumstances, would do the same.
There are plenty of English speakers who have lived in Spain for years, work in Spain, some are even married to Spaniards, and they STILL don’t speak Spanish. Why not? They’re in an immersion environment, they should be at least proficient, right? Wrong. The reason? Lack of motivation and, I dare say, lack of genuine interest on their part in the Spanish culture.
how long did it take you, to become fluent in spanish?
About two years, but I think you can pretty much tackle Spanish in a year. But still, I’m still learning everyday and improving small things. Written Spanish isn’t my strongest point for example and there are still some errors when I speak (although small).
I agree with many of the comments here, but I have found classes useful in my current situation.
I have taken Spanish in both high school and college and later on participated in a number of Spanish immersion courses and camps in Spain, Mexico and Columbia, but I have always had a problem maintaining and even advancing my fluency afterward.
Now, being fairly fluent in Spanish I have found that classes and computer based instruction are usually below my mastery level. Movies and novels are OK, but are not as personal and memorable. They are easy to forget as they are sort of optional. What has worked well for me recently are online classes in which I can chat to someone to improve my conversational skills. I have been happy with http://personalspanish.net/ which offers classes from a variety of teachers that fit my schedule. I work long hours.
Do you know of anyone with a similar problem and how have they managed?