With the emphasis on input from my side, I may have neglected grammar a bit too much. In fact, I bashed studying grammar in the past (mainly because people tend to study grammar because otherwise they won’t be able to producte a single damn sentence with their ‘telephone book method’). But to be honest; studying grammar is important, even if you’ve had massive input with series, movies, radio, podcasts, etc., etc.
Currently I’m concentrating on objeto directo and objecto indirecto, two pretty important grammar functions in Spanish (to put it mildly). I’ve seen both functions coming by loads of time, but I never understood how it works. So, what’s the only solution then? Yes, open a grammar book and start analyzing the grammar function(s) in question. Still, it’s not easy to get a good grip on how to use them and when to use them, but the combination of grammar studies and enjoyable input works like a dream. More than ever, I’m now able to put together correct sentences and best of it; most of the times it goes automatically! Yes, I still don’t understand why I must use it most of the time, but I use it because it became some kind of sixth sense (better than seeing dead people like in the movie, isn’t it?). Things like why will come later.
A few weeks ago I was reading a book in Spanish, and I just got mad because of all the past tenses I didn’t understand. Sure, I had to memorize the endings and irregular forms of the tenses, but I still didn’t understand what tense to use when. Luckily for me, a few grammar classes were dedicated to indefenido, imperfecto and the pretérito perfecto. Now I can use all three of them without too much problems. Same counts for the subjuntivo which seems to be some kind of mystery to most Dutch-Spanish learners (because the subjutive in Dutch is almost non-existent and really old-fashioned).
So, what am I trying to say? Simple: DON’T NEGLECT YOUR GRAMMAR STUDIES! I actually hate studying and I’m glad that I’m at the level I can watch television and only need to listen carefully and use my dictionary now and then to pick up new words as phrases. But, I found studying grammar in combination with massive input something that each and every student of Spanish should do. There are just times that massive input and your daily SRS sentences doesn’t teach you the more important functions well enough, and that some studying is required.
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{ 11 comments… read them below or add one }
Hey Ramses,
Lately I’ve been focusing on the subjunctive (its many uses), learning some different everyday expressions (along with vocab), and the uses of indirect/direct objects. The subjunctive usually gets me pretty frustrated because sometimes I use the subjunctive when it shouldn’t be used, and vice versa.
Are there any books you recommend for some good Spanish grammar studies? I’m looking for a more advanced book, if you have any suggestions.
Thanks!
Hi Jeff, I know how you feel. I’ve had troubles with the subjuntivo aswell, but finally I’ve the feeling that I nailed that ‘b*astard’, hehe.
As for grammar books; I use some in the Dutch language, and I use the grammar explanations in Spanish from my Gente 2 textbook. In my grammar classes the natives use some other book which totally in Spanish. If you like I can track it down and give you the title and ISBN number?
Jeff, one that I liked and would recommend is Repaso:
http://www.amazon.com/Repaso-Complete-Workbook-Grammar-Communication/dp/0844274127/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215114885&sr=8-1
And of course there is Butt & Benjamin, which is an excellent reference book:
http://www.amazon.com/New-Reference-Grammar-Modern-Spanish/dp/0071440496/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215115080&sr=1-1
I’d use Repaso as a workbook, and B&B as a resource for looking things up from time to time to get a deeper understanding.
Sorry Graham, your comment was up for moderation because of all the links but I kinda missed it
.
About the first book; I’m not that fond of workbooks. They’re too artificial, too unreal. Like you’re ever going to talk like that? I don’t think so. Also, they make you think that you should understand a function within a few pages of the same artificial book. Yeah right…
I do strongly recommend using a reference grammar, as you don’t study it but it only gives you the answers you really want to know. But again; don’t rush things, I’ve had many times the pleasure of suddently ‘getting’ it by just getting massive input.
No worries, Ramses!
I take your point about workbooks. In my situation most of my input actually comes from the Internet and books, so I’ve tried a few different workbooks in the past and I have to say that I found Repaso to be very good. (I am in no way afilliated with that particular book, it’s authors or publisher; this is just my personal opinion.) At 585 pages, it is very comprehensive. The grammar points are presented very clearly with plenty of examples and the material is interspersed with interesting snippets (Notas culturales). Also, seven of its 35 chapters are devoted to Hispanic Culture. I worked throught it all a few years ago and still find myself occasionally referring back to it, so all in all I’d say that for me at least it was well worth the money.
Cheers, G.
Well, if it also works as a reference grammar, I think it’s good. And if you feel happy working with it; good for you! But I was referring to the exercises, I just don’t believe in them. If you really want to test something I suggest you making small tests in your SRS. Like that you need to conjugate some words in a sentence, rather than you filling blanks like most textbooks want you to do.
In college we use Gente 2, and I actually never filled in anything in the workbook. I just hate it with whole my heart. I do use my textbook, but I use the grammar points and as it’s totally in Spanish I also use it for reading (in order to prepare myself for my vocabulary tests, which I all pass because the sentences are in my SRS).
In my opinion; filling in blanks make [you feel] stupid. For the rest; analyzing grammar is nice as soon as you’re not a beginner anymore.
I use this workbook:
http://tinyurl.com/5c8kps
in conjunction with Butt and Benjamin. I don’t think the examples are too false and unlifelike, but the people who write these books do seem to have trouble capturing that “authentic” feel!
Hehe, true. I use Moderne Spaanse grammatica (Modern Spanish grammar), which comes with a workbook. I might check it out again, but the few exercises I did weren’t that good. Just reading and analyzing the explanation and example sentences taught me quite some stuff so far.
These are all great suggestions for workbooks — thanks to Jonathan and Graham for your help! Ramses: could you track down that all-in-Spanish workbook (title and ISBN) for me?
I’d have to agree that the exercises in workbooks certainly are not the way native Spanish speakers actually talk; however, I am always eager to contribute more to my Spanish vocabulary, and the exercises definitely help me with that. Further, I’m looking for more of an explanation of certain grammatical rules in Spanish — I definitely wouldn’t rely on workbooks to learn how to speak.
Do any of you feel that Gente 2 is worth buying? It’s a really popular textbook for Spanish classes in the U.S., but I’ve never used it, so any comments or complaints you have about it would be good to know. Thanks!
Well, I prefer Gente 2 over – for example – Rápido, rápido (which is actually for beginners). It’s totally in Spanish, so that’s good, and the grammar instructions are pretty clear in good-to-understand Spanish. Besides that, the stories in the book come from newspapers or books, so it only uses real materials.
All in all, I don’t suggest using textbooks for self-study (besides in the beginning, but I know you’re far from being a beginner). Why? Well; why would you? You better spend it on a good grammar book and some nice native materials. Watching a DVD (yeah, me likie Toy Story!) over and over again teaches you about the same vocab as a regular text book teaches you. I do suggest using a textbook for mining sentences for your SRS (I don’t know if you’re already using something like Anki, but if you don’t I suggest you using it as it really helps you with reading and understanding functions and word order in Spanish), but buying one for that purpose is just not worth it (you can always using Wikipedia, like I do).
So references like a grammar book? Yes, but don’t rely too much on it. Observe the language by reading and listening, and you’ll more and more have moments like: ‘Ahhhh! So THAT’s how it works!’.
* Returns to Wikipedia to mine more sentences – MINE MINE MINE! * Hehe
Jeff, I tracked down the book I mentioned earlier:
http://www.pearsonhighered.com/academic/product/0,3110,0131598708,00.html
I asked a classmate of mine what she thinks of it, and she kinda loves it. So far I know it does contain exercises, but I’m thinking about buying it for the explanations.